Posts by Cold Steel

44

Does God Create Evil?

by rvalich in

the view held by christian theology is that god did not create evil.

you may argue this point using scripture to support either side.

however that argument is but a symptom of a much larger problem which is choice and free will.. the concept among christians is that sin, suffering, and evil deeds began with the original sin.

If God creates all things, then one cannot escape the fact that he creates evil. The Christian response has always been that God creates only good, but becasue of free agency, good can morph into evil. But if one postulates that some things are eternal (uncreated), then evil becomes a force that contends with God.

The book of Job shows God and Satan in an adversarial relationship, but occupying areas common to both. This is one reason I believe it to be an allegorical text and not historic.

I believe some things are eternal -- as eternal as God, Himself. Only in our present world are there beginnings and endings. To think of God as being the ONLY thing existing for trillions and trillions of years is unthinkable. What did He do? The Cosmos is full of eternal things. Even this Universe had a beginning. But who's to say that there aren't trillions of other "universes" out there beyond our present one?

One ancient writing really impressed me when I first heard about it from a professor of ancient scripture. It came from a non-canonical writing and it stated: "Everything is a system in the midst of like systems." God is eternal and His creations are eternal. If there's one atom, you can bet there's another. If there's a planet, solar system, galaxy or yes, even universe, you can bet there are others.

Jesus said to the Father regarding the Twelve: "...that they may be ONE even as WE are ONE." Thus when we speak of "God," are we talking about one or many? If God is a plural term (Elohim, as in Genesis), we can understand the term, "Man has become as one of us, knowing good from evil." Thus God can be a plural singular, just as "family" and "quorum" are plural singulars. It's in the Bible, and most of the religionists have missed it.

God said to Isaiah (Chapter 44) that beside Him there was no God. Yet we know that Jesus was divine, and that He was God. Psalms 110:1-2 states: "The LORD saith unto my Lord, sit thou at my right hand til thine enemies become thy footstool." Who was David's Lord? Jehovah! Thus, the Father was speaking to Jehovah, later known as Jesus, the Mediator between God and Man. When Jehovah has finished His work, He will present it back to the Father, glorified and redeemed.

8

What is the WatchTower Society's view on the possibility of losing salvation?

by LovingAnihilationist in

i am not a jehovah's witness, but i am a non-trinitarian anihilationist, so i am extremely sympathetic to their cause.. due to my similarities of belief on those two key issues, i am curious to learn more about what the watchtower society believes on other issues, particularly if one can be unsaved after being saved.

i am currently convinced (and probably will not be unconvinced) from romans and 1 john that once one is saved, he cannot be unsaved, and i am inerested to see where i would differ if at all from jehovah's witness belief..

Cold Steel

Salvation can, in my view, be lost. We have baptism, which provides the door; and we have the sacrament of the bread and wine, which renews that ordinance. The scriptures admonish us to endure to the end to gain salvation. To the Jehovah's Witnesses, salvation during life on Earth is meaningless. It's the decision one makes during Armageddon that makes the difference.

The JW faith is all centered around Armageddon (an ever-future event), and control, which keeps everyone managable until that point. Whether the leaders purposely deceive the people or it's just worked out that way is difficult to apprise. But it's turned into a workable system. Since any JW has access to the scriptures, there's really no excuse to be ignorant about Armageddon and its relationship to Jerusalem, and not Jehovah's Witnesses, falling asteroids, World War III or any other Christian sect except Judaism.

By making Armageddon a JW-related event, the church exerts tremendous pressure over its people. By shunning and discouraging friendships outside of the church, the leadership exerts what in self defense circles is called control. The more control you exert over your adversary, the more you limit the damage he can inflict. By controlling 1) information and 2) social intercourse, you can control the organization. And, as the Catholic church discovered, controlling one 's eternal destiny is almost mind boggling.

In traditional Christianity, people work out their own salvation through fear and trembling by enduring to the end. Yes, man can get off the beaten path and revert to the ways of the world and thereby lose his salvation. And few people I think would believe that someone could commit adultery and murder and expect to keep their salvation.

20

"you shall have no other God,s before me"

by jam in

ricky gervais ( the comic) touch on this.. god admitt there are other god,s.

we are not talking about those.

that worship money or fame that is their god.

Cold Steel

In an ancient document a professor of mine cited years ago was an idea he quoted that has stayed with me. It stated that everything was a system in the midst of like systems. It was so profound that I think it must have been a divine truth. We are in a solar system that is one of billions in our galaxy. Our galaxy is one in the midst of untold billions, and they all make up the universe. If the idea is true, then our universe could be one of trillions we can't see or even be aware of.

If trillions of universes make up a cosmos, then how many trillions of other cosmoi are there? In other words, there might be a great deal we don't know. There could be many true gods.

But how could that be? Isn't God One?

Yes, but when Jesus prayed to the Father about the Twelve, he asked that "they" may be one, "even as WE are ONE."

Here Jesus was explaining the oneness of both He and His Father. They weren't physically one, any more than the apostles were physically one. The scriptures also many times use the plural form of God (Elohim); and Genesis uses the term "we" in the opening chapters. People said Satan was lying to Adam and Eve about becoming as gods, knowing good from evil; however, God Himself said, "Man has become as one of US, knowing good from evil." How can that be a lie?

John states that the faithful will become "joint heirs" with Christ, and that when we "see" God, we shall "be LIKE HIM." If we have physical, resurrected bodies, we will become as Christ, who is in the "express image" of the Father.

The Jehovah's Witnesses don't understand that through Adam's transgression, we stand to gain eternal life and become exalted far beyond the pathetic state of what Adam and Eve were. Who would want to lead the sorry existence they lived, and live in a garden for eternity?

8

Why did the WTB&TS side with protestenism as regards the books of the bible

by smiddy in

Cold Steel

The Jews view the revolt as a miracle, and it's that sort of exegesis that got them into trouble with the Romans. Had not Antiochus been dealing with the Romans on his northern front, he would have swatted the Jewish rebellion like a fly.

The Jews knew their scriptures far better than the Jehovah's Witnesses did, but not contextually. Both Isaiah and Zechariah knew through revelation that "all nations" would one day gather against them. At that day they would have the Lord's protection (see Zechariah 12-14 and Ezekiel 38). Unfortunately for them, they ignored the scriptures warning against their being scattered to the four corners of the Earth. Jesus later reminded them of this, but was ignored. The Jews were in a Messianic mood. There might have been some traditions that the mother of the Messiah would be named Mary, because it was a very popular name. When the Romans came to power, many Jews thought that the Messiah's return was imminent. Jesus' popularity led many to think that he might just overthrow the Romans. After all, he was of the royal blood and, had the nation been restored, he would have been the rightful King.

The Maccabeen revolt was a fluke, but it gave the Jews hope that the Messiah might appear. When it became apparent that Jesus wasn't going to mount an armed rebellion, the people abandoned him in droves. Finally, he was nailed to a cross and the rest is history. The Romans scattered the Jews to the four corners of the Earth and in 1948 was reestablished as prophesied. The Babylonian conquest was the first time the Jews were restored to their homeland; in 1948, it was the second time. Isaiah wrote: "And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth." (Isaiah 11)

Who is the "root of Jesse"? No one seems to know, but the Lord has gathered his people and the Messiah will appear when the nations of the Earth combine to destroy Jerusalem in the great battle of Armageddon. This is the battle that the Jews mistook for the Romans. In short, they gambled and lost.

4

EATING BLOOD: What It Really Means

by cameo-d in

the phrase "eating blood" has been translated from an archaic language from words that were intended to express the idea of "profiting from bloodshed".. this would include anyone who is a war monger: leaders who declare war, soldiers who fight in the king's wars, those who sell merchandise that is used in those wars, those who provide services for war mongers, etc.. profiting from bloodshed would also include people who kill others for any reason.

a woman who kills an abusive husband profits by gaining her "freedom".

a robber profits by gaining some monetary value.

Cold Steel

I don't know that the organization is "evil" as much as it is ignorant. Sometimes one gets locked into a doctrine and can't back out of it without looking like there's some sort of spiritual disconnect. It's very much like the blind leading the blind. In modern day Israel, there are certain neighborhoods where you and your car can be stoned if you drive it on their Sabbath. In some neighborhoods in New York where Jews carry wafers or sweets to offer Gentiles who open the doors for them on the Sabbath. Very weird stuff.

Some strange sects today still forbid photographs because they can be seen as "graven images." And I had a friend who would drive fifty miles out of his way to visit a kosher restaurant on travel. At home he kept two sets of china. It wouldn't have been so bad except that he didn't believe a word of the Old Testament. The kosher stuff was just what he'd been taught; it was part of the culture.

How do you back out of things like that? It's literally etched in stone. At one time it made sense for health reasons, but now it's just a quaint tradition.

20

"You wouldn't question the creator of all things, would you?"

by sabastious in

my older brother has a 4 year old son.

he has a wild imagination and is frequently freaked the hell out at night.

so my jw brother naturally tells him that jehovah will protect him.. when this statement doesn't appease the fearful child he will use a statement along the lines of "do you question whether jehovah can protect you?".

Cold Steel

Hmmm. I wonder why he is fearful to begin with? Is it because they've filled his head with demon stories? Shouting "Jehovah" three times is the standard way to stave off night demons (and elephants), but why are the Jehovah's Witnesses so preoccupied with Jehovah when the New Testament is so Christ-centered? It is in the name of Christ that the church operated -- and the ancient church was so radically different that the Jehovah's Witnesses that one should be, instead, trying to discover why.

Do the JWs ever read the Bible anymore?? Back in the 70s they did. But nowdays, they seem only to have memorized the scriptures that come with the conversion book they use.

But getting back to the matter at hand, why is the 4-year old so terrified at night? Haven't the parents heard of night lights? In another couple of years, buy the kid a revolver and tell him to shoot anything that moves after beddie bye.

Seriously, this isn't the only child to fear the dark. Find out the reason he's so fearful. The way the JWs discuss demons may very well be the reason. Do the parents watch scary movies in the child's presence? (When I was four, my grandmother kept me out of the basement by telling me about the rats. Big rats. Big teeth, and they could give you rabies. It worked. The rats stayed downstairs and I stayed upstairs. It worked out well for both of us and has to until this day.)

White noise machines also work well.

Years ago, I met a woman whose son (four) saw things at night. People. They had auras of varying colors. These people did not seem menacing and the child described them in incredible detail. At first I wrote it off as imagination, but then the mother told me that her mother had described the same things when she was about four. These people she saw had beautiful auras of gold, green, blue, yellow, etc., and they, too, seemed neither menacing or unhuman. Some would occasionally stop and smile, but then move on. As the grandmother became older, the experiences went away and never returned. She never lived to tell them to her grandson, nor did the mother ever mention it.

We don't know about such mysteries, but I sent our minister over to see the woman. He was a decent guy and later told me that he had discussed the incidents with the boy. He said there weren't any drops in temperature, hair going up the back of the neck -- things that accompanied more sinister things. What he was seeing, if anything, is beyond me, but I'm convinced there are things in life, and in the mind, that are beyond our understanding. The best bet is to treat the problem as simply as possible; and screaming "Jehovah" isn't my idea of a workable solution.

4

EATING BLOOD: What It Really Means

by cameo-d in

the phrase "eating blood" has been translated from an archaic language from words that were intended to express the idea of "profiting from bloodshed".. this would include anyone who is a war monger: leaders who declare war, soldiers who fight in the king's wars, those who sell merchandise that is used in those wars, those who provide services for war mongers, etc.. profiting from bloodshed would also include people who kill others for any reason.

a woman who kills an abusive husband profits by gaining her "freedom".

a robber profits by gaining some monetary value.

Cold Steel

Yes, this is something that's rumored to be in flux. Whether they're really discussing it up the line in the spiritual holy of holies I don't know, but the rumors are that it's something that may be in the winds of change.

Anciently people engaged in all sorts of horrible habits and practices. They sacrificed babies in the fires of Molech and they partook of blood in various rites. Blood is the carrier of all sorts of diseases, and that it would be forbidden for human consumption is understandable. But so were graven images! People worshiped them anciently, so they were forbidden under the Law. Now that it's no longer a problem, graven images are no longer forbidden. (Still, some radicals remain convinced that images on film and stone should be forbidden. If blood for medical purposes is not allowed, neither should statues and photos be allowed!)

It's time for some new light to come streaming in through the windows at Bethel. The problem is, so many JW children, spouses and such are dead because of the policy that it might not be feasible. We'll have to wait and see.

2

Using the New World Translation in Preaching

by Cold Steel in

perhaps of all the current translations of the bible, the new world translation has the worst reputation, partially because it was compiled by inexpert people using lexicons and preexisting exegesis.

the result was a bible that not only is inaccurate, but dispassionate and sterile.

there is no beauty in it and appears to have been translated by communist propagandists.

Cold Steel

Perhaps of all the current translations of the Bible, the New World Translation has the worst reputation, partially because it was compiled by inexpert people using lexicons and preexisting exegesis. The result was a Bible that not only is inaccurate, but dispassionate and sterile. There is no beauty in it and appears to have been translated by communist propagandists. "Faithful and wise servant" in Matthew 24, also known as the "wise and loyal servant" and the "servant, faithful and wise" (Young's Literal Translation), "faithful, thoughtful and wise servant" (Amplified Bible) and "true servant and prudent" becomes, in the New World Translation, the acerbic "faithful and discreet slave."

The New World Translation is a stinging slap to virtually every other translation from the King James to even the most modern renditions. It sends shivers up the backs of other Christians. Slave? What's the difference between a servant and a slave? If YOU had to be either one or the other, which would YOU be? Slaves are people who work in salt mines or who build pyramids. On the chart of servile tasks, servants rank a few steps higher. Said one theologian, "I will be a servant of God, but I will never be his slave."

C.S. Lewis, in the Screwtape Letters, points out that God wants Servants who can become His Sons, and John tells us that God's Servants can become "joint heirs" with Christ. This is not possible with slaves! In fact, John tells us that when we see God, we shall be like Him. What sort of "slave" finds such honors?

Peter says, "For this reason the gospel was preached also to those who are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit. (I Peter 4:6) This is impossible for JW understanding despite its shocking clarity. The gospel is preached to the dead, so they can be judged according to men who are alive and in the flesh, but they, themselves, will be alive as spirits. The NWT has to render it thus: " In fact, for this purpose the good news was declared also to the dead, that they might be judged as to the flesh from the standpoint of men but might live as to the spirit from the standpoint of God." The idea in the JW translation is that the men were dead spiritually "from the standpoint of God." That last part is simply not in the original. There is no "standpoint" mentioned in relation to men or God!

So the translation needs to carry the interpretation. Thus, do the JW leadership require that only one type of translation be used in their weekly meetings? And do they entertain discussions on possible translation errors?

Just curious.

12

WOULD I LIKE TO SEE A COPY OF THIS!!!!!!! Resurrection for those executed at Armageddon?

by GrandmaJones in

questionsfromreaders.

the answer to the second question of this section appearing in the november 15 issue drew many responses and further questionings.

without being dogmatic, it stated that it seemed scriptural to believe that children executed in jehovahs battle of armageddon would not be resurrected.

Cold Steel

Is the Watchtower required reading for the JW sect?

I'm not a member, but I can only imagine how I'd act if my church kept predicting the end and it didn't come. There must be a way they keep people coming back. Maybe it's the dopamine rush. The church seems to have kept the congregation in line by telling them that yes, something did happen; you just couldn't feel it, see it or comprehend it. It's like when you lose, declare victory and keep on tracking!

The Catholics do the same thing with transubstantiation. They administer the emblems, declare to everyone that a miracle occurred, and they do it again next month. Fastest gun in the West...wanna see it again?

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32

Cult...Cult...Cult...Cult!

by Cold Steel in

it seems that many people on this board get a certain amount of glee calling the jehovah's witness faith a "cult.

" especially former jehovah's witnesses.

and though it's true in a number of senses, we must be conscious of the fact that the early christians were considered by nearly everyone in roman and jewish society as a cult.

Cold Steel

I've noticed that the JWs I've been in contact with just don't know the scriptures. They give me the impression of memorizing some scriptures, but very few of them seem to READ the scriptures. When discussing the Bible, many of them say they'll "write it down and get back to you." The Bible study they advertise feeds them the verses they need, but even simple questions tend to send them back to check those questions out with other sources...and, not being a JW, I don't know what those sources are.

At the Kingdom Halls, do they not study the scriptures chapter by chapter? Or do they say, "Today's topic is what happens when you die," and then only the verses they use are fed to them?

How are the meetings structured? They have a church service on Sunday, but what sort of Sunday School classes do they have? And don't they have some sort of meeting on Wednesday? (My grandfather had a Kingdom Hall across the street and sometimes, when it snowed or he felt like attending a religious service, he'd get dressed up and go over.)

In another thread, someone talked about a fellow who wore a beard and that some of the elders counseled him on that. What business is it of an elder whether someone has a beard?? What else do elders counsel people on? I'd really like to know. And if someone replies, "With all due respect, Elder Jones, I'll wear a beard if I please, just as the Savior did!" -- what then?

These are the things I'm really clueless on.

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